I inhale Sothern Exposure & Nocturnal Submissions -- Scotty Fucking Sothern’s unholy union of photo & story, a Vice commission, solid like a gold wedding band found in a pawn shop full of defunct technology and busted amps.

I tell myself, “just one more, then I’ll get to work,” but now I’ve been saying that six or seven deep and I’m showing no sign of lag. Addict. Like an old friend used to preach, “You get to that point where it’s either: you do a lot more drugs or none at all.” That was a metaphor I won’t go into. But it just as well could have been taken literally.

Sothern and I meet at House of Pies on Vermont and Franklin. A cane rests by the booth, but courtly he is and stands to greet me. He tells me he’s ditched most of his vices, but pie is still one of them. So it’s pecan for the man, while I give the key lime a shot.

I dive direct into the writing. Not what he is known most for, the man dubbed with the moniker, “oh, that prostitute photographer!” or “that photographer who sleeps with hookers and takes their picture!” Right... Don’t the kulture just love to pigeon-hole, excuse me, “brand.”

Yeah, I’ll give you your brand. Just hold still as the iron heats up.

Scot Sothern has certainly got an eye and a style, though it’s broader than you’d expect. And not just what meets the eye. The currents of compassion, humor and humility that run through even the grittiest pics become clear after spending even just a few moments with the man. Exploitation this is not.

SZOLDIE
When you look at one of your photographs, does it trigger the story? Or are these stories all locked in your head, steel trapped?

SOTHERN
I always wanted to put text with photographs. I’m a second generation photographer. My father had a little portrait studio in Springfield, MO where I grew up. And I was groomed to take over the business -- you know weddings and baby photography and all that. But that wasn’t going to happen, no way. And I left early. But I was already a photographer. It was the only thing I knew how to do. It wasn’t out of a great love for photography.  All the photographers I’ve met always say it was because they fell in love with it. You know the lenses, the darkroom and all that stuff.That never happened it me. When I was young it was just a way to make some money. I came out to Los Angeles and did anything possible to make a buck. I’d go to neighborhoods and if I saw toys outside on the lawn I’d knock on the door and talk my way into the house. I’d bring a background and a camera and take pictures of the kids. Then I’d come back a week later and try to sell them the pictures that I took. Anyway, I’ve always been a photographer and I’ve always wanted to be a writer. But I have no formal education. I’ve never taken any writing class or course or anything like that. But nevertheless, I always read and since I wanted to be a writer I just started writing. And kept doing it. Then a few years ago, I had all these pictures and I had stories that went with all of them, especially with the Lowlife pictures. I knew they were good stories, so I put them to text. Then five years ago we had an exhibit at the DRKRM gallery here in Los Angeles and we did a book in the UK, a Lowlife book with pictures and stories. Most of the stories then were only a paragraph long, which is a format I like. In the 70’s I was working in Florida as a portrait photographer for a couple years and I picked up a book by Charles Gatewood, a photographer in New York, and William Burroughs. And the pictures are similar to what I do. A little more journalistic. And he put text to them. And the text was Burroughs.

SZOLDIE
So this was existing text from previous books.

SOTHERN
Yeah. And most of it didn’t make any sense, but William Burroughs never made any sense anyway. But it was a fun book. And ever since then I wanted to do the same thing. Because I’ve taken pictures my entire life I have this vast catalogue. So now I go through a series of pictures and remember a story and go ahead and write it. And for Vice it’s been great ‘cause I can sit down and knock out a story. I’ll write the story on a Monday night then I’ll re-work it for maybe an hour or so every night for a week, and then send it in. Then take a week off then do it again. And I’ve gotten really good and quick with those stories. We’ve stopped the column for now. We did fifty-two stories in two years. That’s a lot. So I needed a break and I’m looking to start something new.

SZOLDIE
Did you write your book in the same way?

SOTHERN
I started Curb Service in 1990 and I finished it couple years ago. I wrote one chapter, and I thought about it, and I’d go back to it every so often, but I didn’t really work on it. I was working on other things, trying to write novels. Then I found a publisher and a good agent, and I finished it. It wasn’t not anything I really planned on doing. I always thought I’d be a novelist. But memoir and pictures. I look at a picture sometimes when I write and it isn’t always what happened with that picture, but it’s more about the feeling that the picture gives me, the feeling, the time that picture takes me to. And other times it’s exactly what happened when I took the picture, except for the fact that I have a crappy memory and dialogue is not something I can recall. Much of the dialogue is what I think I said or what I would have said. One of the great things about being a writer is that you can talk back. When you’re a kid and you walk away from an encounter and you think, “Fuck, I should have said this or I should have said that.” But as a memoirist, I can say that. (laughs) You can always go back and say it.

SZOLDIE
Les pensées d'escalier. That came from the salons they used to have in Paris, where it was a battle of wits. It goes back to thinking of the perfect comeback right when you’re already out the door and going down the stairs.

SOTHERN
Getting even has a lot to do with one of the reasons I write. I had a lot of learning disabilities when I was young. A lot of problems as a kid. And I barely, barely, barely made it out of high school. All through high school I was in the retard classes. At the time it was kind of a badge I wore. “I’m so fucking bad, they have me in the retard classes. Nobody can teach me anything.” And I think over the years a lot of my writing was to prove, I’m really not.

SZOLDIE
How did you structure Curve Service?

SOTHERN
I was trying to be a father, I had a five year old kid, and I was divorced for the second time. And I was trying to be a good father. But I was all fucked up at the same time. And I was out photographing these women and getting involved with them sometimes. That became what I could fill the story with. And then there are pictures and moods that bring me back to my youth, and I was able to put that in. The first time I ever went to visit a prostitute when I was 15 years old. Basically it’s a story about street prostitutes and how fucked up it is for them out there. I mean, it’s... there’s something wrong with the way things are. And it needs to be addressed. Whether I addressed it or not, I really don’t know. But I also wrote a story about myself, my son, my father. All these things really came together and made me who I was to go out there and do that sort of thing. When I do things like that I always think that it’s normal. Everybody should be doing that. I have a novel that I wrote and, oh god, it’s been rejected by fifty different people. And it’s good. It’s funny. But it’s way over the top. But when I wrote it, I didn’t think so. And I still don’t think so. Even with Vice, I’ll write something and I’ll send it in and they’ll say, “You really don’t want to say this... publicly. Maybe we should not do that and not do that.” But when I write it never dawns on me that there’d be anything remotely inflammatory. It’s just what I write. Most of my audience now are between 20 and 40. The only people my age who read what I write are people who know me

SZOLDIE
What’s the name of the novel?

SOTHERN
Well, there are two of them. One is called Hog Heaven. And the other is called Big City. That takes place about 110 years ago.

SZOLDIE
Where? Here?

SOTHERN
No, it’s kind of an imaginary city. It’s not-- other than it has some really bizarre sexual things here and there and it has some violence-- it’s not what people would expect from me. It’s not like the memoir.  And it’s not, “Here I am on the dark creepy streets of Los Angeles.” It’s completely different from that.

SZOLDIE
Would you say it’s historical noir or not even noir?

SOTHERN
It’s sort of historical and noir. We’ll see what happens. I always tried to change what I was doing and what I was working on so I didn’t always have the same style of photography for ever and ever. I can recognize a Richard Avedon picture anytime, anywhere. But I never wanted to be that recognizable. I wanted to do more and always change. But it’s funny. I think people can identify a lot of my pictures now because they do have a certain look. Especially the black and white pictures. They all kind of look the same to me actually.

SZOLDIE
I feel that style isn’t something you try to do. It’s just a result. It’s almost out of your control. And if someone is trying for a certain style, it’s usually vapid. Because it’s an imitation of someone else’s.

SOTHERN
My style came from necessity. I’m out, I want to get a photograph, I want to get it fast, I want to pose it, I want it to be well-lit. I got a flash on the camera so I know that every time it’s going to be properly lit. It’s going to be exposed properly. So, yeah, it’s out of necessity. That was the quickest way I knew it would always work.

SZOLDIE
In any of your stories with Vice are any of the characters ever composites of different people?

SOTHERN
Yeah. More so, I think in the memoir. And oftentimes I’ll take two events and make it one event. Or make it two events that happened right after the one another when in fact they may have happened years apart. Anybody who expects a memoirist to be exact or true or not embellish anything, just... I don’t think it happens. But at the same time you don’t want to be a James Frey who wrote A Million Little Pieces and it turned out the whole thing was fabricated. J.T. Leroy used to have readings up here at Skylark Books. And he’d refuse to show his face. He’d go upstairs and just peak down and wouldn’t come out and sign the books or talk to anybody. And of course it turned out that he didn’t exist.

SZOLDIE
It was a hoax.

SOTHERN
I actually thought it was kind of cool. She was having a hard time getting published and she’s a good writer. So I have no problems with what she did at all.

SZOLDIE
Yeah, it’s funny when people say they’re scandalized. Do you feel like today it’s harder to shock, or astound because of people’s exposure to so much?

SOTHERN
Well, I never try to shock. Because again, none of what I’ve done seems extraordinary to me. I’m just this guy taking pictures and hanging out with whores and junkies, and a lot of people do that. It’s not that big of a deal. I feel like I’m more surprised when people are shocked.
My brother who lives in Missouri read Curb Service and he was so shocked by it that he called me a degenerate. And I said, “How could you have not known that? By now?”

SZOLDIE
Would you say that there is any satire in your work? Or is it more humor that’s unintended, just humorous by its situation.

SOTHERN
I want to be funny. I’m not as funny as I used to be. I was a funny kid. And I was funny in my youth. But I’m not all that funny nowadays. I don’t know what happened.

SZOLDIE
I actually find some of the stories funny.

SOTHERN
I try to write humorously. I like to play with words and sentences. My favorite writers have always been funny and profound.

SZOLDIE
Who are some of your favorite writers?

SOTHERN
Philip Roth. Russell Banks. They’re not at all underground writers. They’re pretty established. I liked all the Beats when I was young and occasionally those comparisons come up, but I’m not.

SZOLDIE
What about the other Southern?

SOTHERN
Terry? Well, he spells his name differently.

SZOLDIE
I know, I know.

SOTHERN
I thought he was pretty funny. He was a funny guy. Candy was very funny as is Doctor Strangelove, which I’ve been watching for years and years.

SZOLDIE
Have you read Blue Movie?

SOTHERN
I did. As a matter of fact I remember, I read Blue Movie and I gave it to my father to read. And this was, it must have been early 70’s. And he read it and was just kind of shell shocked by it and I remember he came to me and asked me what “head” was. What did “head” mean. So I had to explain it to him.

SZOLDIE
“The definitive blow-job,” that’s what Kubrick said.

SOTHERN
Oh, that’s good!

SZOLDIE
Terry Southern was sending him chapters as he was writing it. And I think he was hoping that Kubrick would direct it.

SOTHERN
It’s a shame it never was. It’s silly to say, but I kind of got discovered a few years ago. I mean I was already sixty years old before I started publishing. But I’ve been writing and making the pictures for all my life.
Something happened somewhere when I started submitting stuff in the late 80’s. You know in the 60’s and 70’s and even the 50’s (and oftentimes the 50’s are the 60’s, the 60’s are really the 70’s until ‘75, and all that).
They published people like Terry Southern. They don’t any more.

SZOLDIE
No.

SOTHERN
I mean you still have Irvine Welsh and Jerry Stahl and Chuck Palahniuk, people who do get published and they have a following. I went to see Chuck Palahniuk years ago at Book Soup, and there was a line around the block. People waiting to have him sign their books. Because those are the kind of fans his has. And the reason they all got published was because they got published first with a small publisher and then somebody made a movie. But if they hadn’t made that movie, they wouldn’t be doing hardbacks. It’s the same thing with the galleries. And that really drove me insane to go to a gallery and have them tell me, “Well, this is too much. It’s too X-rated.” And then I’d go home and read an article about fucking Mapplethorpe and start wondering, well that doesn’t make any sense. And it seems to me the celebrated artists and writers and even filmmakers are almost always the ones who do go over the top. But in order to get there in the first place, it’s harder than hell. So it’s kind of an odd thing the way that works.

SZOLDIE
Was there one shot that comes to mind that was the most difficult to get?

SOTHERN
There are two photographs in my life that are the best pictures I ever made. One of them is a picture I took under a bridge, not far from here, of a transvestite. And there’s graffiti in the back and she’s got her pants pulled down. And she’s got this incredible face. In making that photograph we had to go under a bridge, and there were people living there. It was almost pitch black and I actually stepped on a person who was passed out on the ground. At the time I was just beginning to have trouble walking. And I jumped. And when I landed I couldn’t stay on my feet and I went over. Her name is Pepper, which is a name I gave her, it’s not her name. But there’s something about looking at that picture for me... that I think it was the best picture I ever made. Now there’s a series of pictures called Family Tree that I made in the 70’s back when there really was no one doing this sort of thing. No one. And I was doing color photographs of street people and things. I was down in Tallahassee, Florida. And I never carry my camera with me. If I want to go out and take pictures, I take my camera. If not, I don’t bring it. I went into a roller rink and there were kids in the roller rink, and there was this couple, probably oh 13, 14 years old. They were wearing skates. She had little fuzzy things on her skates. They’re sitting on a bench. And when the music would play, they’d turn out the lights for 15, 20 seconds. And when the music stops and they just skate around and do whatever they do. And when the music came back on, I saw this young couple come apart. I realized that when the lights went out they were making out. But they couldn’t do it when the lights were on. And on one side was a boy about the same age and on the other side was a girl about the same age. Both of them alone and forlorn. And so I focused ahead of time, I waited and when they turned out the lights, I took a picture. And I got it. The couple making out and the kids on the other side. I have a big one of those in my living room. And that’s my favorite picture. Of forever. But as far as difficult. I spent a year in 1983 in Saudi Arabia. I went out in the desert and photographed the Bedouin tribes. And that was difficult. It was against the law. We weren’t supposed to do that. Which was... why I did it. I went over on a gig for Aramco Oil. And before going over there they said you can take pictures of oil rigs but you can’t take pictures of the people. And so when they said that I bought more film. And I spent my weekends going out and shooting the people. It was tough. We had to go way out into the middle of the desert. And we had to have guides because if somebody just left me, I’d be there still. So, we’d go out into the middle of nowhere and find these camps.

SZOLDIE
When the fixer talked to them, were they open to it?

SOTHERN
Yes and no. They would normally say no pictures of women. Which was kind of silly because you’re just taking pictures of a their eyes. But I worked with it. And did what I did. I never want to piss people off so I try to do it without pissing people off.
And I worked with a guy in the 80’s as well down south and we shot religious cults. And sometimes those were kind of hard. I had guys telling me they’re gonna fuck me up and stuff like that.

SZOLDIE
Did you ever get in trouble shooting your series of the prostitutes?

SOTHERN
It’s just sad because they really have no protection. Marijuana is going to become legal much sooner than prostitution. And others drugs too long before we legalize prostitution. And I will venture to say that it is because prostitution is by and large female. I just can’t see any other reason for it. You know? We live in a country that’s very male centric with the laws. It’s like coming up with a birth control for men. Why would we come up with a birth control for men when we can make women take it?  I think that has a lot to do with it. Why do people hate Obama more than any other president? Why? Because he’s black. Because he’s black, because you’re a woman. Because any number of these things that aren’t white male. And I was born basically upper middle class white male American. Nobody has it easier than I do. Nobody. Anywhere. Unless you’re a prince in Saudi Arabia. I don’t know if I feel guilty or not. But I’ve always kind of felt like I’m obligated to do something about the way things are because I don’t think they’re right. When I was in high school and younger, I would spend time with kids of different backgrounds. I would go over to the bad side of town because, 1) it was more exciting, and 2) because I think that I had this thing in me that I wanted them to like me, because I thought it was important somehow that other people didn’t see me the way they saw all the other kids who had all the other things that I had.

SZOLDIE
Were there subjects of your photography who you became friends with or had relationships with?

SOTHERN
No. No, I left everyone behind and never saw them again. Once I took pictures behind Denny’s on Sunset by the freeway. There used to be an old apartment complex behind there. It isn’t there anymore. I met a woman there and I went up to her apartment and I took a bunch of pictures and she was very friendly, very nice. Crazy as hell. Goofy. And she wanted me to take a picture of her reading a Bible. She actually started directing me. And then she wanted me to take a picture of her-- it was the same time as the big exhibit of King Tut at the county museum, and so she had this King Tut thing. And then I took a picture of her with her kitty cat. And all these things. And I had a great time. And I said good-bye, gave her a hug. And that was it. And a year later I saw the same woman on the street and I pulled over. She was out of her mind on something. She had no idea who I was and that photographed her. And so I photographed her at a dead end street that time. And It was like a different person. I’ve always felt that this is what it is. I take the picture and then  move a way. For one thing, I’m fucked up enough on my own. I have my own problems that I don’t really need to bring the others’ home. There’s nobody really that I photograph who doesn’t have some kind of troubles. They wouldn’t be in front of my camera if they didn’t.

SZOLDIE
Have any of them seen a photograph or asked for a copy?

SOTHERN
Not that I know of. And I would venture to say that only one or two of them remember we ever had that photo session. And I always paid for it. Every single picture I took of the women I paid for because that was their time. I always felt that they’re getting a bit of a respite from the normal asshole who picks them up. I’m a nicer asshole.

SZOLDIE
Right now you’re photographing street people and homeless people, right? With that is it the same thing?

SOTHERN
I decided that too many photographers photograph homeless people. And it goes to those rationalizations again. Every photographer who has ever had a conscience photographs homeless people. And you know they say, “We’re showing this to the rest of the world so they’ll do something to help change it.” But I kind of feel like, I’ve seen so much of it anyhow and it’s not changing fast enough. And I’ve never met a homeless person who wanted to have their picture taken. They’re embarrassed. They don’t want people to see what they look like. They don’t want the world to see where they ended up. So I made a conscious decision to go out with homeless people and take pictures of other people. I yell out as people go by and take their picture. In one sense I’m taking pictures of people reacting to homeless people, but in a bigger sense I’m taking pictures of people reacting to me yelling at them. It just seemed like a better way to do it. I’m still saying something about where we are, but I’m taking a different approach. And the nice thing about it is that I really expected to get a lot of pictures of assholes, but in fact I get a lot of people who smile and wave and stop and talk. And they give me money which I give to the other people. So in some ways it’s been a rather pleasant experience, much better than I thought.

SZOLDIE
Are you taking them around Hollywood?

SOTHERN
So far I’ve only done Hollywood Blvd. And I’ve sat with kids a couple of times, because a lot of kids end up there. And they’re having a pretty tough time. So I make a point of not photographing them. I have a couple of stories that I never have published about the kids.

SZOLDIE
And you’re using a disposable camera for these?

SOTHERN
Yeah. If I had my Nikon it just wouldn’t look right.

SZOLDIE
Have there ever been times when you’ve been out there shooting and you see someone else out there shooting? And it’s almost a territory sort of thing?

SOTHERN
Yeah. Every so often people take pictures of me. Especially on Hollywood Blvd. One guy I talked to for a while said he was out on Hollywood Blvd. because it’s a great place to take pictures. And he asked if he could take pictures of me. So I said, “Sure.”