Four years ago, I was thrown into a process. With two women. These two women, who have forever changed my experience as a filmmaker and a performer (as there can be no other way for me to describe it now --- for changed it has surely been) were Claudia Cardinale and Nadia Szold. Claudia requires little introduction here, her career of over 60 years and 140 films being well-renowned and worthy of such veneration and acclaim equal to that of Anna Karina, Jeanne Moreau, Catharine Deneuve, and Anna Magnani. Nadia is a writer and director, educated in theatre, currently based in Los Angeles, who has previously contributed to this journal. Our film together was called Joy de V. The film has since played around the world, and will be distributed this fall, digitally and theatrically.

Most recently, we were privileged to find ourselves invited to be part of the official selection for Claudia's TaoArte Ommagio (a Prize for contribution to the world of Cinema and subsequent retrospective program) at the Taormina Film Festival, in Sicily, a festival which is one of the oldest in Italy, & currently in its 60th anniversary year. It was my first time in Europe, and more importantly, my first time in Italy, the land of my ancestry. Reunited, the conversation recorded and the images captured below, paint the most lasting picture of these two women, their remarkable kinship to one another, and the gifts they have given to the world and cinema through their unique partnership, and most importantly, to my work and life. Let this piece be a document of the reconnection, and a testament to my gratitude to both of them, of whom I continue to be in awe.

"I Learned How to Swim One of Those Summers"
w/Claudia Cardinale, Nadia Szold
Direction/Edit: Evan Louison
Camera/Sound: Jean~Marie Parisi

We meet Claudia by the sea. She is alone, seated on a stone bench, smoking, gazing at the cliffs, the beachcombers ambling over the rocky shore. She is as beautiful as I remember her. Not a single change can be identified at first glance. There is a youth behind her eyes, which betrays an inescapable energy, beyond any repression. A helicopter passes overhead. She seems not to notice. Our conversation begins.

NADIA: On the other side of the business… I wanted to talk to you about first impressions… Of productions, of characters, and how these things change...

CLAUDIA: You're talking about our movie? The movie we did?

NADIA: Well yes, but also just how your first impressions apply to the choices you've made recently to work with mostly first-time directors…

CLAUDIA: I love to work with young directors… I mean, all the last movies have been the directors' first movie… It's what's interesting to me… And your movie, it was funny, but it was about mafia, mafia, mafia… (laughs) And this is interesting, I must say, coming from someone so young…

NADIA: What about chemistry? You've had all types of screen chemistry, all types of scene partners and opposing characters, and I wonder if that's something you can describe, the chemistry between you and a scene partner, and whether or not its a palpable thing for you while it's happening… I know for Evan it was a great, nerve-wracking thing to work with you, but you both had this chemistry...

CLAUDIA: Well, I remember in one of my first films, I was very young, and I was the daughter of Rita Hayworth and John Wayne [Henry Hathaway's Circus World or The Magnificent Showman, 1964)… For me, it was incredible to meet her, to work with her… She was Gilda! [1946 blockbuster by Charles Vidor] … So, for me it's just as incredible, to work all over the world, in Australia, Canada, England, Russia & United States, to work with young filmmakers like you… Because usually, you only live one life… But me, I've lived 141 lives, so far…

NADIA: Is there another life, another character that you feel you want to live or play, in the future?

CLAUDIA: Well, no, because for me the most interesting thing is the script, & the director… For me, the characters come later… If I like the script, I meet the director… Or in your case, directress…

NADIA: When I first met you, one of the first things I had heard was that you read our script very quickly & thought it was very funny, and that was a huge compliment to me, because the movie was always supposed to be a sort of black comedy, a comedy with dark humor… And that you got it immediately, that convinced me we could see eye-to-eye…

CLAUDIA: Well, it was fantastic, when he knocks on the door & he's dressed as a priest, but he's actually something else…

NADIA: Yes, that scene's the sort of seduction scene… He has something to gain, you have something to protect, in this case your home… It's a seduction of characters, and he gains your confidence and uses his tools, his words, his personality…

CLAUDIA: I had a marvelous time doing the film… The actor(s) you had me with, they were fantastic… Italians, yes?

NADIA: Italian - American, yes. That's the milieu, the world of the film, and that's the world I existed in when I was 19 in New York, my closest friends were all from Brooklyn & Staten Island… It inspires you and the stories you hear from people, those are the ones you take and tell in your films… The different schemes and scams, New York is a city of survival…

CLAUDIA: And immigrants, just like Italy! People now come here, just as people then were leaving for the States… Everywhere I go, Argentina, America, there are Italians… It is essential…When you look at Italy, every day, thousands of people are coming here from Syria, from everywhere…

NADIA: Yeah, and from Turkey too...

CLAUDIA: Yes, of course… They don't know where to put them anymore, because there are no places… They're coming every day… It's incredible… And the problem is, someone, whoever is bringing these people, if they are caught, they just cut them loose, throw them in the water, and these people can't swim! You have lots of people dead to protect a few smugglers… It's horrible…

NADIA: Last winter my brother was on the border of Turkey and Syria, reporting on it… That was towards the beginning of it… He's in Washington now…

CLAUDIA: Quite the family…

NADIA: It's amazing how many films you are making now… A lot of actors of your stature, they don't want to trust first-time filmmakers, they don't want to deal with any problems of production that may arise…

CLAUDIA: Well, I'm very lucky… I'm 76, and for me, I continue to work…

NADIA: Will it be a problem if we work together again, that it won't be my first film anymore?

CLAUDIA: Yes, you'll have to compete with the others… But remember, I worked with Manoel de Oliveira [Gebo & the Shadow, 2012], and he's 105… So there are extremes… I've never seen an energy like his… Before coming on the set, he was swimming in the pool! Can you imagine?

NADIA: I think you told me, in Paris when we last saw each other, that in between takes he would give you a kiss on the cheek?

CLAUDIA: No, not there…

NADIA: On the mouth? I made it PG…

CLAUDIA: (laughs) He told me I was the actress he preferred, that he always wanted me… For me it is a fantastic adventure...I just did a film called Les Francis, shooting in Corsica, and then when I came back to Paris, I did lots of interviews, because the film is coming out… But nothing like this...with Jacque Dutronc, the singer… He was so funny when we did the movie, because he drinks, all the time… When we were shooting he had always two bottles, of wine, next to him, like that…

NADIA: (laughs)

CLAUDIA: He is crazy…

NADIA: For Jaws, with Robert Shaw, they wouldn't be able to film past 2pm, because he would just wake up, start drinking…Whiskey… And at 2pm, it became clear that they could only film without him…

EVAN: Did I ever tell you the story about Cassavetes on Mikey & Nicky? A kid in New York I knew, his father Joe Stillman [NY theatre actor & teacher, appeared in DePalma's Hi Mom, or Confessions of a Peeping Tom] worked on Mikey & Nicky… Did you ever see Mikey & Nicky? With Cassavetes and Peter Falk, Elaine May made it?… So they shot in Philadelphia and his job was to tend to Cassavetes… To make sure to spend time with him during the afternoon so as he would have someone to talk to… They were shooting at night… Because if he didn't have someone to talk to in the afternoon, he would start drinking at 3 o'clock, & then they wouldn't be able to shoot at 9…

CLAUDIA: My god! Really?

EVAN: But if he had someone to talk to in the afternoon, he wouldn't start drinking till 6 o'clock… And he could still work…

NADIA: Yeah...

CLAUDIA: My god… So he was drinking all the time?

EVAN: Yeah, I mean supposedly, I've just seen the movie, I wasn't there… But [Cassavetes] had all these strange theories supposedly about how all whiskey, all whiskey was actually made in Ireland & every one "made" in the US was just a fraud, cause they were piping it under the Atlantic Ocean… This is what I heard… It may be that's the kind of thing you come up with when you start drinking at 3 o’clock in the afternoon…

CLAUDIA: Whiskey? My god yes…

NADIA: (more laughter)

EVAN: It's a true story…

CLAUDIA: Well, I remember…Doing a film in London, many years ago, and they were drinking beer, all the time, all the time… 10 bottles… Glub, glub, glub…

EVAN: I might need something to drink after this conversation…

NADIA: The crew? Or… The actors?

CLAUDIA: Everybody! It was incredible…

EVAN: It makes it kind of difficult to, you know, focus…

CLAUDIA: I don't know how they can do it… To remember, when you drink like this, my god…

NADIA: Yeah, I never had to deal with somebody drinking on set, or before… It's usually afterwards…

EVAN: (laughs) We're telling the truth now?

NADIA: Yeah, I'm telling the truth…

CLAUDIA: Well, after the shooting…

NADIA: Right, just to blow off steam… They're drinking, drinking, drinking… And then waking them up the next day… Not very smart…

CLAUDIA: Yes, but it was very funny, working with Jacques Dutronc, because he would have many bottles… And then we're doing scenes together, talking…

NADIA: Yeah?

CLAUDIA: And he was fantastic! I couldn't believe it, you know…

NADIA: To achieve the equilibrium, sometimes, some people, they need the chemical, you know, ayuta (help in It.)

CLAUDIA: Your family is Hungarian?

NADIA: Yes, a little Swedish, a little Scottish… But Szold is Hungarian… My father's family came to live in America in the late 1800s, but the Szold part, they came before…

CLAUDIA: Ah…

NADIA: We have these documents from the Civil War…

EVAN: I have seen them, they're very cool…

NADIA: Because they were pharmacists in the South, in Savannah, we have these letters from Robert E. Lee, after he lost the war, asking for more morphine…

EVAN: To your great, great grandfather?

NADIA: Great-great-great…

EVAN: So pretty great…

CLAUDIA: (laughs)

NADIA: So they were in the states for a long time… But the Russian Jews, they came when the Cossacks were starting to bother them… You know, like, "something really bad happened in that town, something really bad happened in that town…We don't really want something like that to happen in our town, we're gonna go…"

CLAUDIA: (more laughter) It's incredible…

NADIA: So yeah, they left in the 1880s, 1890s… My mom's family was Swedish & Scottish, but the dominant family is Hungarian… That was my father's mother… The matriarchy… I never knew my grandfather much because he was divorced & moved to Los Angeles, he was an accompanist...

CLAUDIA: Really?

NADIA: A pianist, yeah… He was Judy Garland's arranger…

CLAUDIA: No!!!

NADIA: Yes, & he was on the Merv Griffin Show, the whole time… Barbara Streisand had heard about him…

CLAUDIA: Streisand too?

NADIA: Well she requested him… She said "If he's good enough for Judy Garland, he's good enough for me!"

EVAN: (laughter, more laughter, in stitches) That's a compliment, you know? "If he was good enough for her, I guess he'll do…"

NADIA: They were very close, but I didn't know them too much, cause they didn't stay in New York… Since I've moved to LA I've become closer with them…

NADIA: How many films are you doing a year now? I mean, how many are you shooting?

CLAUDIA: Well, right now I'm supposed to do a film in Rome… But after I will take a bit of rest, because it's good to… You know… Take it slow…[to Evan] Do you have a girlfriend?

EVAN: Me? No. Why? Are you asking me out?

CLAUDIA: (laughs) No… I was just wondering! You didn't find one since we make the movie?

EVAN: Well, thank you for asking… Unfortunately no…I am available, and not getting any younger though, so... You know, if you change your mind…

NADIA: You're fond of pranks, practical jokes, yes?

CLAUDIA: Oh my god, yes…

NADIA: My fiancé has all these stories of jokes played on film sets… they’re some of the best… And this is something I think is just lacking in cinema now, because people have started taking themselves too seriously… I remember you were telling me some stories of the jokes you would play with Belmondo…

EVAN: Belmondo?

CLAUDIA: Of course, we were terrible, we did many films together…

NADIA: I remember there was something in Australia…

CLAUDIA: I mean, we were always… You know, in the love scenes, pinching each other, tickling each other, trying to make each other laugh… Laughing like crazy, and the director saying, "Stop it now!"… And another time we were shooting in a hotel, and [Belmondo] had me go to the director and the receptionist, and keep them occupied, you know (here she bats her eyes and affects a graceful, comely charm, which for a woman of 76, is still captivating)… And the meanwhile, the whole time, he is taking everything, the television, the couch, all the furniture, out of the hotel room, and putting it on the street!

NADIA: You know one of my favorites that I've heard from Steven [Prince] was the first day of shooting New York, New York with Laszlo Kovacs, the cinematographer… And Marty [Scorsese] is setting up the shot, going back, looking through the camera, & going back to the staging, then back to the camera. Steven goes over to Laszlo & says to him, "You know, that's his glass eye he's looking through..." Laszlo is baffled. He goes over to casually look in Marty's eye, trying to catch the light gleam off of his glass eye [Ed. Note: Martin Scorsese does not, for the record, have a glass eye]. Marty's talking the whole time, explaining the shot, then finally says to him, "What are you doing? What are you looking at?" And Laszlo Kovacs says, "Steven said you have a glass eye- it just looks so real." "Don't believe anything that guy says!"

CLAUDIA: That's unbelievable…

NADIA: And they made that whole film in Los Angeles…

CLAUDIA: Ah, the last time I was there, I was at the Oscars, and the only one I didn't recognize was Warren Beatty! He came up to me and said, "Claudia! We presented the Oscar together, 50 years ago!" I didn't even remember… A lot has changed in 50 years…

NADIA: Yeah well, him and his sister [Shirley Maclaine] had a running competition back then to see who could sleep with more people…

CLAUDIA: It was like a sport!

NADIA: You've sung in films before as well, right?

CLAUDIA: Well I starred with Bridgitte Bardot in a film… They asked me to sing like a man… And I was in Hit Parade in Japan… Popsipop! You can still see it, on the internet…I was dancing on the table like a crazy one…

EVAN: You?

CLAUDIA: Someone who called me once, because of my voice, asked to speak to Claudia… They thought I was a man! I said, yes, let me get her for you…

NADIA: Did you ever see [Rudolph] Nuryev dance?

CLAUDIA: Yeah, because I was with [Luchino] Visconti, in London, with him, and we went together, to see the last performance he had there… And he was actually living on an island in Italy…

NADIA: That must have been beautiful…

EVAN: That was my first thing I ever did in the arts, or sports… When I was a little older than your grandson's age, about 4 or 5, my mother had me take ballet… She was a dancer…

CLAUDIA: Really?

EVAN: Yes. And the story goes that after the first day of school, my first day on the school bus, I came home directly & said to her, "I don't want to take ballet anymore…" Of course I don't remember any of this… The kids must have been cruel…

CLAUDIA: (laughing, more laughing)

EVAN: I wanted to talk to you about how we first met, and if you remember how nervous I was…

CLAUDIA: You, nervous? Why?

EVAN: Do you remember the dinner we had, in New York? I had just come from Ohio, where we were shooting [Redlegs by Brandon Harris, 2012]…

CLAUDIA: Oh yes!

EVAN: …And I got off the plane, went straight into the costume fitting, met a beautiful girl there, and then was so distracted with the time that I didn't realize how late it was, until finally someone said "Okay Evan, you have to be at dinner with Claudia Cardinale in 45 minutes…" I was like, you have to be kidding me, 45 minutes? It's insane!

CLAUDIA: (laughter, in stitches) I do remember that!

EVAN: And you were sitting at the bar when I arrived and Nadia ushered me in and…

CLAUDIA: And I hit you?

[Ed. Note: At this point, Ms. Cardinale did reach across & attempt to pop me one]

EVAN: (somewhat flustered) Well… You hit me first we could say… I was defending myself… But do you recall I couldn't talk to you?

CLAUDIA: Yes, but why?

EVAN: Because when I was a little kid, I saw you in The Pink Panther, Once Upon a Time in the West, I mean, I saw Fitzcarraldo when I was like 14 years old!

CLAUDIA: That one was the greatest adventures of my life. When it's too easy, I don't like it.

EVAN: So… Does that mean it was difficult working with us?

CLAUDIA: TERRIBLE! No, I'm joking… [of Nadia] She was fantastic… You were okay too…

EVAN: The first day I told the whole crew, I was so tired, having not slept…

CLAUDIA: Well, you had just arrived…

EVAN: That… And other things… But I told the whole crew, "Please, whatever you do, don't let Claudia see me sleeping, just wake me up before she gets here…" And the next thing I know, I'm waking up and rubbing the sand out of my eyes & there you are, standing over me, saying "Hi."

CLAUDIA: You were embarrassed, I remember that… It was okay though, because they told me you were crazy, and I am used to that. Don't forget I worked with Klaus Kinski before you…

EVAN: Yeah well, maybe in the future if this whole movie thing doesn't work out, I can be your bodyguard?

CLAUDIA: Ha! I don't need a bodyguard.